Curse

Hollerith · Sep 11, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Main selling point of Glyphing MS is that I control how often it's cast. I can essentially cast it whenever it's useful to. You don't have that with the echos because you're committed to casting another one or two MS's within the next 20 seconds, and then have a 40 second cool down time when no MS's can be cast.

Xavier Lightstone · Sep 11, 2006, 04:11 PM // 16:11

If you are going to echo, then echo Rogdort's Invocation, no exhaustion, no scatter (ok, no knockdown, but then you should use glyph with MS)

S_Serpent · Sep 12, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

2 echos = you can use 3 Meteor Showers consecutively, then wait for around 44 seconds. Not exactly spamming.

Also, you can't really spam Meteor Shower due to exhaustion, long casts, and long recharge. Whether you're on Renewal or Echo.

Seems to me you'll have to find the right skill combo! I throw max 5 of them one after the other in 32 sec, mostly 4 in about 27 sec though since for 5 your timing is more crucial (and in this form the 27 casting sec are already making sure your original MS will be recastable in about 33 sec after finishing this cluster of MS's).

I made my own build, and my guildies now use it too, nobody believed it before I showed it to them.

And I said before that exhaustion is my only downfall in this build, but still I'm capable of throwing 3 clusters of 4 showers very short after one another (I mean in the time my last MS has recharged, most of my energy is back aswell with 4 energy pips, but you'll deplete it after those clusters, but in that time the enemies shouldn't be there anymore).

LightningHell · Sep 12, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Serpent

Seems to me you'll have to find the right skill combo! I throw max 5 of them one after the other in 32 sec, mostly 4 in about 27 sec though since for 5 your timing is more crucial (and in this form the 27 casting sec are already making sure your original MS will be recastable in about 33 sec after finishing this cluster of MS's).

I made my own build, and my guildies now use it too, nobody believed it before I showed it to them.

And I said before that exhaustion is my only downfall in this build, but still I'm capable of throwing 3 clusters of 4 showers very short after one another (I mean in the time my last MS has recharged, most of my energy is back aswell with 4 energy pips, but you'll deplete it after those clusters, but in that time the enemies shouldn't be there anymore).

I'd need to get numerical proof before I believe that.

Xioden · Sep 12, 2006, 12:29 PM // 12:29

00 Glyph of Renewal
01 Meteor Shower #1
06 Delay 2 seconds for Glyph of renewal recharge
08 Arcane Echo
10 Meteor Shower #2
15 Wait for Glyph of Renewal to finish recharging
16 Glyph of Renewal
17 Echoed MS #1
22 Echoed MS #2
27 = Done casting

I'm not seeing how you can really squeeze a fifth shower in 32 seconds. You could go nuts though, bring a BiP necro, Bring Arcane Mimicry and have someone else bring Glyph of Renewal or Echo as their elites, minus the 50+ exhaustion from it that would render you pretty crippled for a bit, would be interesting.

That aside, In PvE at least, you don't want to chain them together that quickly as you want to avoid triggering AI scatter from area damage.

[edit] The fifth MS could actually come before hand.. Use Glyph, wait 10 seconds, cast MS and then go into the rest of the combo above, though this would be 42 seconds from start to finish, although you could precast if you so chose to, which would deliver the 5 MS's in 32 seconds, But once again, see the two above points: Exhaustion and scatter.[/edit]

S_Serpent · Sep 12, 2006, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xioden

00 Glyph of Renewal
01 Meteor Shower #1
06 Delay 2 seconds for Glyph of renewal recharge
08 Arcane Echo
10 Meteor Shower #2
15 Wait for Glyph of Renewal to finish recharging
16 Glyph of Renewal
17 Echoed MS #1
22 Echoed MS #2
27 = Done casting

I'm not seeing how you can really squeeze a fifth shower in 32 seconds. You could go nuts though, bring a BiP necro, Bring Arcane Mimicry and have someone else bring Glyph of Renewal or Echo as their elites, minus the 50+ exhaustion from it that would render you pretty crippled for a bit, would be interesting.

That aside, In PvE at least, you don't want to chain them together that quickly as you want to avoid triggering AI scatter from area damage.

[edit] The fifth MS could actually come before hand.. Use Glyph, wait 10 seconds, cast MS and then go into the rest of the combo above, though this would be 42 seconds from start to finish, although you could precast if you so chose to, which would deliver the 5 MS's in 32 seconds, But once again, see the two above points: Exhaustion and scatter.[/edit]

You got the chain there, and about the fifth one its before the cycle so you cast your Enchantments, Glyph pre engagement and then start the MS + cycle (=32 sec - true I didn't count the Glyph cast time and recharge time in here since they are just like the enchantments pre battle casting options). And sorry if my post would have sound with some kind off air, but I like to have people really think about something before giving them the answer, thats how I like it myself.

I already agreed about the exhaustion as the weak point, because you drain yourself after a few cycles.

I hope I don't have to go deeper on the scattering effect in PVE, just use it to your advantage. I never mentioned you need to cast 4/5 showers on the same target (mostly 2 are more then enough for a nice quick kill off mobs PVE way and do not have to scatter 'em, if applied correctly).

Even about running into your own casted MS, I has its reasons, maybe some will call it noob, but here the scatter effect really rocks. I've used this defensive to from time to time, personal I like bed of coals better for this

I like the elementalist as my primary proffession and char, even after getting hit by the A.net nerf bat. I simply like them the best, in my humble opinion.

LightningHell · Sep 12, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Serpent

You got the chain there

That's Glyph, not Echo. Echo implies the elite, Echo {E}, not Arcane Echo.

S_Serpent · Sep 12, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Also, you can't really spam Meteor Shower due to exhaustion, long casts, and long recharge. Whether you're on Renewal or Echo.

We were talking about the possibility of spamming MS, which I prove to be possible with Renewal.
Echo (indeed the Elite skill, duh

) is another thing, indeed.

S_Serpent · Sep 12, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Oh and if you like the fire ele, just have go at it, you like it just like me.

Or go wild and explore the earth or water line, ele's are fun.

LightningHell · Sep 12, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Serpent

We were talking about the possibility of spamming MS, which I prove to be possible with Renewal.
Echo (indeed the Elite skill, duh

) is another thing, indeed.

Oops, I think my definition of spam is a bit different than yours. I intend to spam it till no tomorrow, so...I don't think that's possible.

EDIT:

And...

Quote:

Oh and if you like the fire ele, just have go at it, you like it just like me.

Or go wild and explore the earth or water line, ele's are fun.

My main, since May 2005, was my ele....I'm not awfully attracted to the Fire line though.

S_Serpent · Sep 12, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Seems we started at the same time then

I'm glad there are still people that like the ele's alot, because otherwise we shouldn't be posting here eh.

There is a big difference in spamming stone daggers to meteor shower, but yeah MS is 5x as costly as stone daggers for example. So to me yes 4/5 MS's is spamming them.

But according to your post and my feelings (could be wrong) you where happy with 3 tops, ah as long as you have fun, thats whats most important imo.

Cheers

Ic Zero · Sep 12, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

echo+arcane echo allows you to use shower 3 times in a row and renewal allows you to use it once every 15 secs......renewal if you ask me

LightningHell · Sep 13, 2006, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Serpent

Seems we started at the same time then

I'm glad there are still people that like the ele's alot, because otherwise we shouldn't be posting here eh.

There is a big difference in spamming stone daggers to meteor shower, but yeah MS is 5x as costly as stone daggers for example. So to me yes 4/5 MS's is spamming them.

But according to your post and my feelings (could be wrong) you where happy with 3 tops, ah as long as you have fun, thats whats most important imo.

Cheers

Yup, I'm happy with 3 tops. Also, I play a Air/Ward Prodigybot in PvP...I never bother changing from GvG to PvE. Except when I'm solofarming. :P

Tainek · Sep 13, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

The biggest problem with MS is the exaustion, if you cast it more than every 30 seconds, you will stack up exaustion, and eventually it will catch up with you and you'll have to Cast Less often than every 30s to let your Exaustion run out, or even stop casting entirly

5* Exaustion= 150 Seconds to clear (2 and a half Mins) , so after two combos of this, you'll be down to 20 energy roof, and it'll take 300s To clear (5 Mins)

(All Approximate)

Personally , i *Much* Prefer an Echo'd Fireball, while to do the same damage you must use 30 energy, not 25 , it also doesnt get wasted if the first wave kills your targets, or if the aggro spreads. i consider the lack of exaustion a decent tradeoff for the lack of exaustion

it doesnt cripple you with exaustion (Constant DPS) it can be maintained fairly constantly (Immolate ect can be used when echo runs out)

16 Fire
13 Energy Storage

(Or)

16 Fire
11 energy Storage
(Enough Points left over for 8/8+1 in anouther attribute)
(Ward?) (Self Heal?)(E-Management?)
Fireball, Echo, Immolate, Fire Attument, -Open- -Open- -Open- Rez

No Easy to Own 5 Second Cast, and more versatile and long lasting

S_Serpent · Sep 13, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

And still I prefer the MS build in Urgoz Warren.

And about solofarming, I currently use it to refill my skillpoint pool for Nightfall and for the other benefits too.

But to remain on topic, my personal taste is renewal above echo. The build you use however will always determine which is the better one to have in combination.